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  1. #1
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    I know to be in ketosis, you have to eat under 20g of carbs a day. But is it true that if I have a high protein, low fat and very low carb diet, I will not be in ketosis? Or is a high fat diet required for ketosis

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    actually under 80-100 carbs will put you in ketosis. Why do you not want to eat fat? Protein is expensive and it would be very difficult to meet your caloric demands without fat.

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    No you do not need fat from your diet to get into ketosis. You can actually just completely starve yourself and enter ketosis.



    I think you may be getting it confused, your body uses its own fatty acids(again you do not need fat from your diet to enter ketosis) to make ketones.



    But you must remember that protein does convert to glucose, I believe it is around 50%. So having a high amount of protein in your diet may prevent ketosis.



    Fat is better because it is less likely to be converted to glucose, I believe it is like 10%.



    Just remember you can still enter ketosis as long as your carb intake is less than 100g a day.
    "Why am I dying to live, if I'm just living to die." - Tupac

    "Life isn't fair ............. but death is." - username

  4. #4
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    [quote name='username' date='Apr 22 2005, 02:32 PM']No you do not need fat from your diet to get into ketosis.* You can actually just completely starve yourself and enter ketosis.



    I think you may be getting it confused, your body uses its own fatty acids(again you do not need fat from your diet to enter ketosis) to make ketones.



    But you must remember that protein does convert to glucose, I believe it is around 50%.* So having a high amount of protein in your diet may prevent ketosis.



    Fat is better because it is less likely to be converted to glucose, I believe it is like 10%.



    Just remember you can still enter ketosis as long as your carb intake is less than 100g a day.

    [snapback]236595[/snapback]

    [/quote]



    The human body is incapable of converting lipids into glucose. This is essentially the point of ketosis.

  5. #5
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    [quote name='Ex Dubio' date='Apr 22 2005, 01:42 PM'][quote name='username' date='Apr 22 2005, 02:32 PM']No you do not need fat from your diet to get into ketosis.* You can actually just completely starve yourself and enter ketosis.



    I think you may be getting it confused, your body uses its own fatty acids(again you do not need fat from your diet to enter ketosis) to make ketones.



    But you must remember that protein does convert to glucose, I believe it is around 50%.* So having a high amount of protein in your diet may prevent ketosis.



    Fat is better because it is less likely to be converted to glucose, I believe it is like 10%.



    Just remember you can still enter ketosis as long as your carb intake is less than 100g a day.

    [snapback]236595[/snapback]

    [/quote]



    The human body is incapable of converting lipids into glucose. This is essentially the point of ketosis.

    [snapback]236638[/snapback]

    [/quote]



    I found this





    Metabolism of lipids in human white adipocyte.



    Large V, Peroni O, Letexier D, Ray H, Beylot M.



    INSERM 499, Faculte de medecine Laennec, rue Paradin, 69372 Lyon. [email protected]



    Adipose tissue is considered as the body's largest storage organ for energy in the form of triacylglycerols, which are mobilized through lipolysis process, to provide fuel to other organs and to deliver substrates to liver for gluconeogenesis (glycerol) and lipoprotein synthesis (free fatty acids). The release of glycerol and free fatty acids from human adipose tissue is mainly dependent on hormone-sensitive lipase which is intensively regulated by hormones and agents, such as insulin (inhibition of lipolysis) and catecholamines (stimulation of lipolysis). A special attention is paid to the recently discovered perilipins which could regulate the activity of the lipase hormono-sensible. Most of the plasma triacylglycerols are provided by dietary lipids, secreted from the intestine in the form of chylomicron or from the liver in the form of VLDL. Released into circulation as non-esterified fatty acids by lipoprotein lipase, those are taken up by adipose tissue via specific plasma fatty acid transporters (CD36, FATP, FABPpm) and used for triacylglycerol synthesis. A small part of triacylglycerols is synthesized into adipocytes from carbohydrates (lipogenesis) but its regulation is still debated in human. Physiological factors such as dieting/fasting regulate all these metabolic pathways, which are also modified in pathological conditions e.g. obesity.



    Publication Types:

    Review



    PMID: 15525872 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]





    From Merriam-Webster Online



    gluconeogenesis: formation of glucose within the animal body especially by the liver from substances (as fats and proteins) other than carbohydrates
    "Why am I dying to live, if I'm just living to die." - Tupac

    "Life isn't fair ............. but death is." - username

  6. #6
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    [quote name='username' date='Apr 22 2005, 04:32 PM']No you do not need fat from your diet to get into ketosis.* You can actually just completely starve yourself and enter ketosis.



    I think you may be getting it confused, your body uses its own fatty acids(again you do not need fat from your diet to enter ketosis) to make ketones.



    But you must remember that protein does convert to glucose, I believe it is around 50%.* So having a high amount of protein in your diet may prevent ketosis.



    Fat is better because it is less likely to be converted to glucose, I believe it is like 10%.



    Just remember you can still enter ketosis as long as your carb intake is less than 100g a day.

    [snapback]236595[/snapback]

    [/quote]



    I had under 20gr carb ED over 2 weeks and couldnt get into ketosis, but I was trying too hard to get clean fat (fishoil, enova, phosphatidylcholine, EVOO) aside from my protein intake. Just when I was about to give up, and start taking other fat (butter, nuts, etc) I got into ketosis (unfortunately kicked out again afterwards for consuming too much nuts that got some carb in them). I really think that one needs high fat to get into keto, just my opinion.

  7. #7
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    [quote name='DesperateToLoseWeight' date='Apr 24 2005, 02:38 AM'][quote name='username' date='Apr 22 2005, 04:32 PM']No you do not need fat from your diet to get into ketosis.* You can actually just completely starve yourself and enter ketosis.



    I think you may be getting it confused, your body uses its own fatty acids(again you do not need fat from your diet to enter ketosis) to make ketones.



    But you must remember that protein does convert to glucose, I believe it is around 50%.* So having a high amount of protein in your diet may prevent ketosis.



    Fat is better because it is less likely to be converted to glucose, I believe it is like 10%.



    Just remember you can still enter ketosis as long as your carb intake is less than 100g a day.

    [snapback]236595[/snapback]

    [/quote]



    I had under 20gr carb ED over 2 weeks and couldnt get into ketosis, but I was trying too hard to get clean fat (fishoil, enova, phosphatidylcholine, EVOO) aside from my protein intake. Just when I was about to give up, and start taking other fat (butter, nuts, etc) I got into ketosis (unfortunately kicked out again afterwards for consuming too much nuts that got some carb in them). I really think that one needs high fat to get into keto, just my opinion.

    [snapback]236877[/snapback]

    [/quote]



    But science doesn't work by opinion.



    Ketosis is a result of low-glucose conditions. Excess protein or carbohydrates will prevent ketosis, but fat should not contribute.



    Do note that ketosis is essentially irrelevant for fat loss, although it does suppress appetite in some.



    Moreover, there is no exact threshold between ketosis and no ketosis -- ketostix simply measure ketones in urine. If you drink large quantities of water, the concentration of urine ketones will drop and thus ketostix will often fail to detect their presence. Other factors can also affect the reliability of ketostix as an indicator of ketosis.



    Do note, by the way, that barring excess protein, ketosis generally occurs with anything fewer than 100g CHO.

  8. #8
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    [quote name='DesperateToLoseWeight' date='Apr 23 2005, 11:38 PM'][quote name='username' date='Apr 22 2005, 04:32 PM']No you do not need fat from your diet to get into ketosis.* You can actually just completely starve yourself and enter ketosis.



    I think you may be getting it confused, your body uses its own fatty acids(again you do not need fat from your diet to enter ketosis) to make ketones.



    But you must remember that protein does convert to glucose, I believe it is around 50%.* So having a high amount of protein in your diet may prevent ketosis.



    Fat is better because it is less likely to be converted to glucose, I believe it is like 10%.



    Just remember you can still enter ketosis as long as your carb intake is less than 100g a day.

    [snapback]236595[/snapback]

    [/quote]



    I had under 20gr carb ED over 2 weeks and couldnt get into ketosis, but I was trying too hard to get clean fat (fishoil, enova, phosphatidylcholine, EVOO) aside from my protein intake. Just when I was about to give up, and start taking other fat (butter, nuts, etc) I got into ketosis (unfortunately kicked out again afterwards for consuming too much nuts that got some carb in them). I really think that one needs high fat to get into keto, just my opinion.

    [snapback]236877[/snapback]

    [/quote]



    It might have been just a coincidence that you just so happen added extra fat and you got into ketosis. Or I am guessing that you lowered the amount of protein you consumed to account for the extra fat. And as I said 50% of protein converts to glucose and 10% of fat converts to glucose. So that might have helped you into ketosis.



    I shared the same situation as you. I was trying a CKD and found it very hard to get into ketosis. I worked out twice a day and ate about 50 g of carbs a day. I was lucky if by day three I was in ketosis.



    It looks so easy on paper to get into ketosis, but in real life it isn't so easy.
    "Why am I dying to live, if I'm just living to die." - Tupac

    "Life isn't fair ............. but death is." - username

  9. #9
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    The determinant of what you will oxidize is the availability of carbohydrates in the body, which by it self control several important hormones for loss of fat, minimizing muscle loss, and the important well being on diets.



    One thing is to get into ketosis, a another thing is to stay there!



    when you drop below 100grams of carbs daily, you will start seeing ketones in your blod, but as the brain decreases its need for glucose you have to drop your carbohydrate intake even more, and most likely below 40 during a few weeks.



    To prevent muscle loss its recomended to at least have a protein intake of 1,5 x kg bodyweight. This will make the body prefer the protein you consume as its fuel when it choose to convert protein to glucose by gluconeogenesis to give the brain its needed full. It will also be using the glycerol part of the fatty acid which will be realeased from the triglycerides in the fatt cells to make glucose (gluconeogenesis).







    The conversation rates;

    carbs 100%

    proteins 58%

    fat 10% (glycerol part)

  10. #10
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    [quote name='username' date='Apr 26 2005, 12:30 AM']It might have been just a coincidence that you just so happen added extra fat and you got into ketosis.* Or I am guessing that you lowered the amount of protein you consumed to account for the extra fat.* And as I said 50% of protein converts to glucose and 10% of fat converts to glucose.* So that might have helped you into ketosis.
    [snapback]237299[/snapback]

    [/quote]

    No, I didnt lower my pro, I decreased my clean fat in exchange for the butter/nuts fat (I track my intake @ fitday to make sure I consume more than 100gr fat ED and under 20gr CHO). But probably just about time.



    [quote name='username' date='Apr 26 2005, 12:30 AM']I shared the same situation as you.* I was trying a CKD and found it very hard to get into ketosis.* I worked out twice a day and ate about 50 g of carbs a day.* I was lucky if by day three I was in ketosis.*



    It looks so easy on paper to get into ketosis, but in real life it isn't so easy.

    [snapback]237299[/snapback]

    [/quote]

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